everybody. starting point this morning, holiday terror. a gunman opens fire in a packed shopping mall, killing two people and himself. we'll hear from a witness who lived through it. overnight, north korea launches a long-range rocket and takes the world by surprise and puts international leaders on edge. what that rocket was carrying and the global implications of that launch in a live report, straight ahead. house republicans give president obama a counteroffer on a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. will it be a compromise the president can agree with? >> flames shoot more than 70 feet in the air as a gas explosion destroys homes in one community. what went wrong? that story, coming up. guests include elijah cummings, charlie crist and marsha blackburn. "starting point" begins right now. >> hi, everybody.

holiday shoppers scrambling for cover at a crowded mall after a gunman opened fire. 10,000 people inside the clackamas town center mall when a man wearing a mask suddenly started firing. chaos erupted. when it was over, three people dead, including the shooter himself. a young woman left wounded, fighting for her life right now. >> the mall is supposed to be a place we can all take our families, feel comfortable that this is a great place, especially at the holiday season like this. and these things aren't supposed to happen. >> i want to begin with dan simon live in portland. we know that the police have identified the shooter, but is there any indication of a motive at this point? >> not yet, soledad. any time there is a shooting like this, that's always the first question. what was the shooter? what was the motive? was this a random shooting?

we don't know the answers to any of the questions. we know that the shooting happened about 3:30 in the afternoon. a mall full of people, 10,000 people inside the mall. 1.4 million square feet. you can imagine the challenge for law enforcement, getting here, coming through the mall. we know that the shooter was in the macy's store at one point jogging through the macy's store. the shots rang out in the food court area. the santa actually in that food court area actually ducked for cover. everybody in the vicinity, total pandemonium. listen to one mall employee who described what was happening. >> i work at a kiosk in the middle of the mall, right below the food court. we heard six shots and people scattered like crazy. everyone left. and people at stores were opening doors for to us get in ushering everybody in there. >> the mall will remain closed today. obviously not ideal in the middle of this holiday shopping

season. you might see all of the cars behind me. that's because when this happened, people just dropped their belongings, a lot of car keys inside. purses, that kind of thing. at some point, the mall will set up a process for people to come in, retrieve belongings. two people shot and killed, soledad, authorities have not released their names. they want to talk to their extended families and let them know. obviously what happened. we know that we are talking about one adult male and one adult female. a news conference at 10:00 local time this morning where hopefully we get more information. >> they haven't released the identity of the gunman either, right? they know who he is, but not naming him officially, correct? >> that is correct. they say -- they tentatively identified the gunman. he's somebody they say who is in his early 20s and really the question is, what set him off? was he here to target people

individually? or was this a random thing? they did find the weapon. we're talking about a very high-powered rifle. that's all authorities are saying as far as the weapon is concerned. >> dan simon, thank you for the update. appreciate it. we're looking forward to the press conference to get more information later this morning. major developments to talk about in east asia. overnight, north korea launched a long-range rocket, says it lifted a satellite into orbit. its neighbors are unnerved. even china expressed regret at the move. the obama administration condemned it as a provocative act and will likely ask the u.n. security council to impose crippling sanctions. the pentagon following developments this morning. chris lawrence there. what do you know, chris? >> right now, officials say that object that north korea put into orbit, monitoring it, analyzing it, but they confirm it is in

orbit. why is that important? the same technology you would use to put into orbit is the same technology you use to develop long-range ballistic missiles, the u.s. condemned this act. they are worried about the marriage of north korea's nuclear weapons with this long-range missile technology. this is the type of missile that if it was successful, as it appears to be, could reach parts of the united states, alaska, u.s. military bases in hawaii. but a u.s. efficiently i spoke with who used to work on north north korea for the defense department told me, there are still areas in which north korea has not made it as far as they would need to in terms of getting an accurate rocket, in terms of getting heat shielding, and in terms of making a nuclear war head signal enough to fit on the end of that missile. but the real danger is what it

may do with this technology in terms of giving it over to other nations. >> chris lawrence, thank you. john berman with other stories making news. the united states officially recognizing syria's opposition coalition as the representative of the syrian people. it's just a show of support. it is does not mean america will arm rebel forces. president obama talked about why the decision was made right now. >> the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough. reflective and representative enough of the syrian population, that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people in the asass regime. hugo chavez, recovering from six hours of surgery in cuba this morning. the fourth cancer-related operation for the venezuelan president since the summer of

2011. his vice president tells the people of venezuela the procedure on chavez was complex and completed correctly and successfully. so michigan, the cradle of the organized labor movement is now a right to work state. last night, michigan governor rick snyder kept his word and signed the controversial legislation into law, despite thousands of protesters. >> this is an area where obviously people disagree. but i'm confident this is in the best interest of michiganders. this will lead to more and better jobs. >> the legislation means public and private sector workers in michigan won't have to join a union or pay union dues if they choose not to. a massive gas line explosion jolted people in their homes. saying it felt like a plane crash. the 70-foot wall of fire destroyed four homes near charleston, west virginia. five other homes were also damaged. this fire was so intense, you can see it right there. damaged an interstate, several people were treated for smoke

inhalation. ravi shankar has died. he passed away tuesday after undergoing heart valve replacement surgery. 92 years old and a legend for 50 years. shankar and george harrison teamed up for the concert for bangladesh. his daughter, singer norah jones. he did the score for the movie "ga "ghandi." really recognizable. let's get back to the top stories. investigators still trying to figure out the shooter at an oregon's mall motives. let's talk with someone in the mall. alexis, a terrifying day yesterday. how are you doing? >> hi, there. still recovering this morning. still a little shaken up and

can't believe this actually happened. in the community i've grown up my whole life and the mall i've been to hundreds of times with my friends and family. >> i bet. why don't you start by walking me through where you were, and what you heard when you first realized that something was going very, very wrong. >> yes, i was down stairs, more toward the end of the mall. the shooting happened in the center of the mall upstairs. the girl was blow drying my hair and we hard a very loud noise like the ceiling was falling through or metal clashing. and gunfire going on long enough. we had time to stop and say, what is this noise? and we realized, oh, my gosh. that's a gun. it sounds like a machine gun. and the receptionist at the hair

salon looked out into the mall and saw people scattering and running everywhere, and we realized at that point we needed to get out of there, we weren't sure where gunfire was coming from, if it was near to us. we ran out of the back of the hair salon outside and we were hiding behind a dumpster for a few minutes, until we decided we were way too close to an exit for comfort and we weren't sure if the shooter would come out of that door any moment. we went into the parking lot and hiding behind cars for a while until my dad just showed up across the street, and i ran there and picked up by him. at that point we weren't sure what was going on, where the shooter was. but there was a constant stream of sirens and i was very impressed at how fast i heard -- >> i was going to ask you that. how fast -- at the beginning, you heard the gunfire, able to get out pretty quickly. how fast were police on the scene? >> when you are in the situation, everything seems in slow motion, so for me it felt

like it took a while. but looking back at it, i heard sirens almost instantly. we were behind the dumpsters and i heard the first siren, and when we ran out into the parking lot, i could see multiple police cars coming in, unmarked cars, police cars from around other counties around clackamas, i was impressed with how fast and how many of them there were. >> must have been a huge relief when you saw your dad show up. >> yeah. >> what a shock to have it happen as you point out, the mall where you really grew up. >> i know. it's crazy and really scary. there are so many people i know that work at the mall, that shop at the mall. i wasn't sure who was there, what they were doing, so as i got home and i was able to logon to facebook and twitter, i saw my loved ones were okay. one of my very best friends were

in macy's, and the shooter brushed up against her and looked her in the eye, she saw his gun, and i thank god he didn't decide to start shooting any sooner, or she would have been one of the ones hit. >> alexis winterhalter, what a terrifying experience. glad to hear your friends was okay. the gunman took his own life and two other people. a young woman fighting for her life. we'll continue to update you on the aftermath of the shooting as we continue through the show this morning. they traded proposals, talked on the phone, now president obama sounding more confident about the middle class taxes. are he and the speaker closer to a deal on the fiscal cliff? that up next. and the pope takes to twitter, and here is what he tweeted. he said, listen, writing my sunday morning sermon. going to be a good one. rotfl. of course he didn't say that, he's the pope. what's wrong with you, john berman? we will tell you what the pope said in his first tweet, straight ahead. i was worried the health care system

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building in the western hemisphere. looking forward to seeing those get up. i like watching the progress there. washington now. president obama and house speaker john boehner have shared their new versions of their plans. neither has sealed the deal yet. the white house asking for $1.4 trillion in new tax revenues. instead of the 1.6 trillion demanded for republicans making a counteroffer. less known about the details of the counter offer. 20 days and counting for 500 billion in automatic tax hikes and spending cuts. the congressional budget office tells us for recession. of course, have you congress going on vacation. that happens in two days. with technically 48 hours to go, let's get to elijah cummings. do you think you will have a deal before you go off on break? >> i do. if you asked me a few days ago, i would have said no. >> why? >> the parties are talking.

they are talking, exchange of paper but proposals, but they are meeting. we had the business round table yesterday. major corporations in the country saying, look, revenue, increase in rates, must be a part of this deal. i think all of the things are coming together and we have to see what comes out again. look at where we were a week or two ago and where we are now. at least folks sitting down, truly negotiating, and i think that's a good sign. >> so on the other side of that, i'll give all of the reasons why you might not have a deal. harry reid says we can do things quickly, but not fast enough as far as bill drafting goes. john boehner says the white house is dragging its feet. here is what he said. let's play a chunk. >> where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house doesn't move on this the closer we get to the fiscal cliff.

>> he says the president is slow walking. the president did an interview with abc news. what the president said to barbara walters. >> we have no make sure middle class taxes don't go up on january 1st. i'm confident that republicans wouldn't hold middle class taxes hostage to try to protect tax cuts for high-income individuals. >> he said he's fine to go over the fiscal cliff. all of those reasons would be reasons to say maybe we're not close to a deal on that do you think he'll get a deal before the end of the year? you are the optimistic one in the relationship here, or will we get one before you go off for christmas break? >> some type of deal. may not have a complete deal. but this issue of tax cuts for those earning less than 250,000, we will get that done. that is something we all agree on. and there may very well be parts

of this that have to be done in 2013. again, we need to look at putting things in motion to get a complete deal done. we have to do it right. as far as tax cuts are concerns, we need to extend them and i think we will. that will be a down payment on -- for future negotiations in january. >> so one of the things that's being floated and details sketchy on it the idea of raising the age of medicare eligibility from 65 to 67. barbara walters talking to the president. he used words that it's something that has been floated. would you support the idea? >> no, i do not support it. because i know that there are so many people who come to a point of they work hard all their lives and get to maybe 55, and they need -- they need -- they -- they are in pretty bad shape. then they still have to wait until 65 at present to get

medicare to wait until 67 i think does a lot of harm. as a matter of fact, i raised that with alan simpson months ago and one of the things -- he agreed with me, that's a problem when you have people -- some people have very difficult jobs, people that live in my district, in my neighborhood, many of them are not in a position to wait until 67. they may be dead by then. >> what do you cut? i forget who i was talking to the other day. they said everything on the table. not social security, nod medicare. and listed things not on the table. what is on the table? >> we've got to make sure that medicare is more efficient in providing services and we can find savings there.

again, we've got a situation where we can negotiate drug prices, very important right now. we can't do that on medicare. >> that won't raise enough money to make a dent in a multitrif trillion dollar system. >> it will make a dent. the other thing we need to look at, find ways to make sure we make the affordable care act, we call it obama care, work. mark zandi before my committee the other day, and he was very clear that if we can make that work, and it is a wellness type of program, keeping seniors well, it's much cheaper to keep them well than when they are sick, that will save a lot of money and bring down inflationary costs and medicare costs in medicare. we have a number of things we can do. we have to be very careful as senator rockefeller was saying yesterday, we have -- have you medicaid and medicare two very important programs and a lot of people, that's all they have that's medicare and social security, that's it. on the one hand, are you saying people say, okay, let's tax

those -- the upper earners, but let's take something away from people who have nothing. so that's not a fair exchange. we have to be very careful when looking at those programs. >> you can't just tax upper earners. you maybe everybody give up something at some point. >> yeah, but it's hard to give up something when you don't have anything, and that's the point. so we've got a -- on the one end, people are trying to survive. say, for example, medicaid, medicare, but on the other hand, people making millions and up until this point, not asked to pay one penny more. that's not a fair exchange and i think our country is better than that. i really do. we lift up those who are down and out. >> let me ask you a question about the hearing today on human

growth hormone and the nfl with the nfl commissioner, roger goodell won't be there. and the executive director of the players association won't be there. how much teeth can this hearing have if the two major players don't show up? >> the committee has already met with the partners and there is not agreement on how to go about testing for these human growth hormones, and so basically what we're doing, bringing in experts from nih and doping agencies to come in and talk about how to test for them and number two, we'll have organizations talking about the effects these types of hormones have on our children, and on adult players. >> congressmanelijah cummings, thank you for joining us. still to come, we'll hear from the federal reserve about interest rates and the growth of the economy. what kind of toll will it have on the market? christina has that, coming up next.

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it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. welcome back to "starting point." i'm christine romans. minding your business. u.s. stock futures higher, indicating markets could open higher again today. the federal reserve expected to announce more economic stimulus today. fed chief ben bernanke speaks at 2:15 eastern. the s & p 500 up more than 13% so far this year, and now up since the election. bank of america, merrill lynch predicts oil prices in this country will drop to $50

per barrel. the cause? difficulty in moving huge amounts of oil from the bakan oil fields in south dakota and in texas. they don't predict a corresponding drop in gas prices. world oil prices will stay high, and our gas prices will likely track that. americans are upbeat about the economy. 43% of americans say they are optimistic about 2013 and believe the economy is rebounding, nearly twice as many as last year. >> can i ask? the other day, we were talking about the fiscal cliff. and you tell us it will be really, really bad. why does the market keep going up? >> everyone thinks they will fix it. in the market, the question, what will the top rate be for the highest earners. 37%? the market says there will be a deal and lower corporate tax rates. if there isn't a deal, after the first of the year, a big stock market sell-off. >> we'll talk about the 20 days

left to the fiscal cliff, straight ahead. still ahead, a prominent republican now officially a democrat. we'll take a closer look at why former florida governor charlie crist left the gop behind. he'll join us to talk about that. and the hit reality show "storage wars," by the way, i love that show. is it fake? what one star is saying. say it ain't so. that in a moment. mmmm. [ female announcer ] make new traditions with pillsbury grands! cinnamon rolls. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ breathes deeply ] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth!

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good morning, everybody. you're watching "starting point." deepak chopra is back. author of a new book, called "superbrain." thank you for writing a book about my brain. just kidding. unleashing the superpower. i'm kidding, relax. to maximize health, happiness and spiritual well-being. talk more about your book tomorrow. happy to have you on our panel today. margaret hoover is with us this morning. and ryan lizza of "the new

yorker." closely watching developments in east asia. north korea launched a long-range rocket, lifted a satellite into orbit. it appears it went off without a hitch. the u.s. blasting the move, so to speak, calling it provocative. paula hancocks with live reaction in seoul, south korea today. >> reporter: as you say, the u.s. blasted this move. but we have a counterblast from north korea, blasting the international condemnation. the kcna state-run media a quote from the foreign ministry in north korea that said "hostile forces are showing signs of a sinister bid to take issue with the launch for peaceful purposes. now, pyongyang has insisted this is for peaceful purposes, to put a working satellite into orbit.

they claim they have achieved that of course, other countries including the u.s. believe it's a cover protesting long-range missile technology. the u.s. has been singled out for harsh criticism for the north koreans, saying the u.s. overreacted to the satellite raunch ba launch back in april. that was one that actually failed. they overreacted and added to hostile feelings. the international condemnation before the launch did nothing to stop the north koreans from carrying out the launch anyway and even the condemnation after the launch is being dismissed by pyongyang. kim jung un's regime is determined to celebrate what they have done today, because they see it as a success. soledad. >> it seems, paula, like everybody was surprised which may be behind the aggressive condemnation. the neighbors and the united states surprised by this launch. >> reporter: >> looks like we've lost our

audio connection with paula hancocks. we'll get that question to her, though. that is a bit of a shock in this story, is that after a launch that failed not long ago and talked about postponing a launch, pulled off a launch that was successful. >> two days ago, talking about major technical delays there. thought it might never happen and wake up and something in orbit. >> a little shock to everybody. other news this morning. john has an update. arraignment set for pedro hernandez, charged with the murder of etan patz, the first missing child to appear on a milk carton. he disappeared in 1979 near his manhattan home while walking to school. his body has never been found. pedro is expected to plead not guilty. two alabama men were arrested in georgia. both are u.s. citizens. wilson arrested as he was about

to board a flight to more oka. abu daer arrested at a bus terminal. they were planning to wage jihad ne jihad. the pontiff sent his first tweet. thank you for your generous response. i bless all of you from my heart. >> did he write heart or do the symbol for heart? >> the guy sent three tweets and has 700,000 followers. >> 120,000 right now. >> several tweets this morning. his twitter handle if you want to be a follower, @pontiffex. which means bridge builder. one tweet written, hit the send

button. so he's involved with tweeting himself. >> he will have to tighten it up, make it a little more interesting. >> he'll get into it it's hard. >> pictures. instagram. >> one more story we want to get to. about the hit reality show "storage wars." the question, is "storage wars" real or fake? according tory dar online former star dave hester suing the a & e! network, claiming that he was fired retaliation after he complained about stuffing lockers with valuable things to make the show more exciting. >> a reality show that's not real? what? >> it's shocking. say it ain't so. the show rigged the bidding and paid for a female cast member's plastic surgery to add sex appeal. if you can't believe in reality shows what can you believe? >> no santa claus. >> can't believe in storage wars. >> the news you can believe in. >> i have watched news in the

middle east and al jazeera, and middle east. everybody has a different news story about the same story. different interpretations. >> what is the truth? interesting. but this guy says it ain't "storage wars." a let's talk about charlie crist, changing sides. he says he didn't leave the party, the party left him behind. he served as governor state of florida and ran for senate as an independent and spoke at the this summer's dnc. democratic national convention, here is what he said. >> half a century ago, ronald reagan's, whose optimism was inspiring to me to enter politics. he famously said he did not leave the democratic party. but the party left him. listen, i can relate. i didn't leave the republican

party, it left me. >> last friday, crist officially became a democrat. he joins us now. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, soledad. good to be with you. >> thank you. appreciate that. you tweeted out pictures after you officially twaped parties, holding the paperwork, the official paperwork which makes you a democrat now. 2006, you ran as a republican for governor. 2 2011, an independent, 2012, a democrat. why did you feel the need for all of the swapping? >> i felt the need to go full circle. really where i feel a lot more comfortable to be perfectly honest with you. i was proud to be ary public i had can, the party of abraham lincoln and teddy roosevelt who started the national parks system. but today, it seems the leadership of the republican party has become a lot more rigid, a lot more challenging. when you look at issues,

soledad, like immigration. talk about deportation. when you talk about education, they defund it. talk about voter suppression, they deny voting to people, and i just can't embrace that anymore and be true to myself. >> let me read some of your own quotes back to you. hard to be more conservative than i am on the issues. back on 2009. pro life, pro gun, pro family, i'm anti tax. have you changed on those four specific things? >> no, i'm not saying that at all. i'm pro life, but i don't believe in imposing my will on other people. i believe people should support and protect the second amendment. i believe raising taxes isn't something anybody wants to do. certainly i never wanted to do it as a legislator or as governor. i believe in public safety. i believe in protecting the environment. i live in florida, the most beautiful state in the country

in my humble opinion. these things i have always believed in. education, ethics, the environment, protecting the economy, and fighting for people. >> let's focus on taxes for a moment. in the fiscal cliff debate, tax is a big part of that. where do you stand on that if you are anti tax? >> anti tax, but not anti common sense. it's obvious to me what the president is trying to do is the right thing to do. sometimes you have to have revenue in order to fill the hole. that's what president obama is trying to do and he's right on the mark. i support what he's doing. we have to watch spending too. common sense is really what i think americans want and what they believe in. what i believe in. and i think when you apply common sense to any issues, we can have common ground and move forward as a nation, do what's right and have a better future for all of us. >> governor crist, margaret hoover here. what you are saying sounds

great, but republicans would say it sounds like political tunism at the cost of principal. you are becoming a democrat because there is no political future for you in florida as anything else. what do you say back to them? >> a lot of cynics in politics. and we recognize that. that's unfortunate. in order to be true to myself, i have to do what's right for my heart. and what's right for me is to pursue the things i believe in. the values my mother and father and the principles my mother and father taught me. i'm the grandson of a greek immigrant who came to this country with nothing. america gave him a chance, an opportunity. if you work hard, live by the rules, do what's right and be true to yourself, you know, the las label is not so important. my principles are -- >> can i follow up. >> i didn't mean to interrupt you, i'm sorry. >> no, it's okay. your principles have changed

quite a bit. you were in favor of merit pay until you needed to not be in favor of it. changed on multiple positions and it seems as though that is political tuopportunism. >> with all due respect -- >> isn't it okay to change positions sometimes? >> it is okay sometimes. but with governor crist, republicans would say we have seen not a natural revolution, but one that is sheer, political calculations. >> a lot of what he said made sense to me, common sense actually. >> thank you. thank you. that's from a superbrain. >> yes, he's not writing about my. why would a voter who supported you in 2006, when you were elected governor, why is that voter still with you? as you say, have you come full

circle. which is a way to say you've changed a lot on a lot of positions. what makes that voter who originally stuck with you as governor want to still be with you as you head into your career as a democrat? >> when i say i've come full circle what i mean, republicans to democrats. not an i'd deological shift to honest. when i ran for governor, i was in a tough republican primary, and issues come up about different social issues. how do you feel about these things. what do you think is important? you know what? whether it's gay issues or the abortion issue, my feeling, live and let live. that's how my mother and father raised me and my three sisters. i got elected by 30% in that primary. and i'm still being true to what i said back in 2006. i've just changed the label. what i said is true, the republican party left me. even jeb bush said ronald reagan

would have a tough time in today's republican party. having said that i want to stress that i don't think all republicans are that strident or hard right. my mom and dad, for example, are still republican, and i love them dearly and they are compassionate, kind, caring people and a lot of republicans are and are frustrated like i am. i made a personal choice to become a democrat because it's really where i'm much more comfortable. >> and now it's official. charlie crist joining us this morning. thank you, we appreciate your time. >> soledad, i want to wish my wife a happy anniversary. fourth anniversary, 12/12/12. >> done it here live on our show. i like that. famed photographer has photographed someic onic images. those, straight ahead.

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over his five decade career, photographer steve shapiro has photographed everything from presidents to poodles and he's hinds classic photos of rock stars, film stars, and migrant workers and the selma march. we have some never before published photos. >> thank you. >> it's called "then and now." a real theme of juxtaposition. not only timewise, but the images you take. i want to start with the first one. kind of jarring. two little girls, which i think is in the selma march in alabama, 1965, juxtaposed with two little girls in chicago at american girl place. why is this so interesting to you? you set them up on the page that way. >> because it's two different styles in america. two different areas of america,

and always interested me to capture all of the different elements that make up our country. the two girls are watching the selma march, come into montgomery, alabama, and the little girls just bought these dolls at an expensive store in chicago. it's just -- it's a different look at things. >> you like to do class structure, and i think especially in hollywood which has its own class structure, marlin brando. one of the rare pictures -- the man never my picture except the pictures you've taken of him, here is a picture when he was playing -- >> when i photographed "the godfather" i did a book called "the godfather family album" which composed all of the elements of the "godfather" films and brando let me photograph his makeup session. it was a serious session, changing a 47-year-old man into don coleone and in the middle of it he gave me this wonderful

look which i caught. >> you have a great picture of dustin hoffman jumping in the hallway. >> he is a delight on and off camera. he just has such spirit and you know, such wonderful feeling and humor all the time. he's a really wonderful person. this was just a moment after they had been filming and it just was a spontaneous event. >> when you're sort of over the top in these hollywood glitz and glamour and you look at a picture, a stunning picture of the bean pickers, let's show that picture, because it brings you right down in the middle of the book of i guess it was for "life" magazine. >> this was the first story i ever did. i always wanted to be a "life" magazine photographer, and so one of the things that inrested me was the migrant worker situation in america and particularly in terms of children, who went from one camp to another, and never really had a real education. so i spent four weeks there on my own, photographing and making

an essay on that. there's a picture which is not in the book which is just of a cabin wall in which a child has written "i love anybody who loves me." it really exemplifies that whole feeling there, and you felt where are these kids going to go? how can they really move forward in their lives in a deductive and you know intelligent way. >> look at this picture ofb barbra streisand. it is stunning. do you love the hollywood stars or prefer the people whose lives and existence is an insight into sort of the american class struggle? >> i think everything makes up our country in a way and our interests vary very much in terms of political things, documentary things and also we love movie stars. i work for "life" magazine and other major magazines and when they folded i saw the country

was going gaga for celebrities. i went to california and started working much more on films. basically there's no difference for a photographer. you're looking for emotion, you're looking for that spirit of a person, and the only difference in terms of a real life or documentary situation you don't always know what will happen next. in terms of movies if you read the script you have a general idea. >> a picture is worth a thousand words, that's the expression, he's telling stories. >> it's called "then and now." steve schapiro thank you so much. initiated.

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welcome back, everyone. senator joe lieberman kicking off a farewell with an address after 4 years of service. after this he plans to visit diners across connecticut in the coming weeks to thank voters. nasa says a new meteor shower could make an appearance this week at the same time that the gemenid meteor shower is

lighting up the sky. it comes from a debris field that has never crossed paths with our planet before. the air force sending a super secret mini shut well a spectacular launch from cape canaver canaveral. the military is keeping quiet where it's headed, what it's doing and carrying. the launch they cut off the launch commentary 17 minutes into flight, so you couldn't hear what they were talking about anymore. still ahead on "starting point" north korea defying the world launching a long range rocket. why the u.s. was apparently caught off guard. and what would you do if you're a black lady with short hair and someone writes this on your facebook page "the black lady that does the news is nice but is she a cancer patient? she needs a wig or to grow more hair." she writes back a lovely response that says "have a great weekend, thanks for watching" and gets fired. we'll have rhonda lee's story

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we'll hear from an eyewitness close enough to the gunman to admit "i am the shooter." a provocative act, north korea launches a rocket overnight. is this a coverup for a ballistic missile program? house republicans give president owe pa ma a counter offer on a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. will it be a compromise the president can agree with? an asteroid buzzes right between the earth and the moon. the question is, how did it get past astronomers? >> it's wednesday, december 12th and "starting point" begins right now.

good morning, welcome, everybody. our team, deepak chopra, the author of "super brain, unleashing the superpower of your mind." i'd like to maximize my health, happiness and spiritual well-bei well-bei well-being. this is my christmas present to myself. margaret hoover cnn contributor and former white house appointee to the bush administration, ryan is a washington corresponder for "the new yorker" and cnn contributor. jon berman sticking around with us. starting with a terrible shooting among shoppers, some literally slaughtered at a suburban portland mall. it was a chaotic scene some 10,000 people packed inside the town center when the shots rang out. store workers, shoppers, a mall santa and some racing for the doors. dan simon is live in portland. what is the latest? what do we know about this shooter, dan. >> we can tell you that the

sheriff craig roberts is saying he believes that the victims were shot at random, this was not a targeted attack. he's also saying it appears at one point his rifle actually jammed which explains why more victims weren't shot. happened at 3:30, 10,000 people in the mall, the shooter goes through macy's on the second level, headed towards the food court where the shots rang out, pandemonium inside the mall, people ducking for cover at one point. the santa in the mall taking pictures with children, he ducks for cover, so it was quite a scene, when it was all over as you said, three people were shot, two people dead, two adults killed, one male and one female. the mall is 1.4 million square feet, so big when authorities came they didn't know what to do. this area is so big that they had to canvas basically the entire mall, that took many, many hours, they weren't quite sure what they were dealing with

but in the end we're talking about a single gunman and of course he took his own life. soledad? >> there was a young woman who has been critically wounded. what is her condition? do they think she's going to survive? >> reporter: sounds like she's going to survive. she's been described as being in serious but stable condition, took a shot right in the chest, apparently she has to have a few more surgeries but she's going to survive. >> how awful for her but good news, it looks like she's going to be okay eventually. thank you, dan. ahead we'll hear if are an eyewitness. first john has an update on other stories making news today. what do you have? >> we're following a developing story all morning. north korea's launch of a long-range rocket blasted into the skies over east asia a few hours ago carrying a satellite that was placed into orbit. sections of the rocket came down near japan's southern islands and the philippines. the united states condemned the launch as a provocative act and believe it was cover to test

ballistic missile technology. russia is criticizing president obama's decision to recognize the syrian opposition saying they were surprised by it. the president announced his decision in an interview with abc's barbara walters. this does not mean america will be arming the rebel forces. the declaration is intended to be a show of support. the president also explained why the announcement was made now, after almost two years of war. >> the soarian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people in opposition to the assad regime. >> the u.s. joins britain, france and turkey in recognizing the syrian opposition. michigan the cradle of the organized labor movement, is now a right to work state. last night michigan governor ri rick snyder kept his word and signed the bill into law despite

thousands of protesters. >> this is an area where obviously people disagree but i'm confident this is in the best interest of michiganers. this will lead to more and better jobs. >> the legislation means public and private sector workers in michigan will not have to join a union or pay union dues if they choose not to. hugo chavez is recovering from six hours of surgery in cuba this morning, this is the fourth cancer-related operation for the venezuelan president since the summer of 2011. his vice president tells the people of venezuela the procedure on chavez was complex but completed successfully and correctly. close encounter of the asteroid kind. two ast roits buzzed earth, one of them passing inside the earth's orbit. one came been 140,000 miles of our planet. the cool part it caused an eclipse only visible to astronomers but this is the scary part. no one knew the asteroid was

coming until a couple of days ago. snuck up on us. >> that's a little terrifying. >> asteroid that size 120 feet if it were to hit the earth it would cause damage over an area of 800 square miles. >> even if you knew in advance, what would you do? >> have you ever seen "armageddon"? come on. >> we need iron dome for the world. >> all it would do is create mass panic. >> you think it's better not to know. >> unless you can do something about it. >> we're going to go see "armageddon" together and we'll talk about the possible solutions. >> let's get back to our starting point. >> science fiction. >> which was this deadly shooting in an oregon mall, the aftermath. lawson was inside that store when the shooting happened. nice to have you with us, austin. we appreciate your time. tell me about what you saw. you saw the suspect right before he opened fire. give me a description of where you saw him and how he looked.

>> well as soon as he ran into the mall, the salvation army guy i met earlier this week was like, there's a gunman in, so i turn around, as soon as i turn around i see a man, like a tall, slender guy, about average height and he had a mask on, kind of like a jason hockey mask i was in such shock where i kind of just stood there and as i stood there in shock, time slowed down and everything just got slow and after that, all i heard was "i am the shooter" and shots rang out. five, six shots and by that time i hit the floor and just ran out and started telling everyone and anyone i saw there's a shooting going on, don't go in there. pack your kids, your family and let's get out of here. it was scary. >> some people said the weapon was so big they actually thought it was fake because he had that mask on it almost looked like some weird version of a halloween mask. what was his face like? was he angry, was he provoked by something? was he aiming at specific people

or was he just opening fire? >> i think it was an open fire like a mall massacre, that's the best way to describe it for me. i don't know what he was going through or what happened. he came in there on a mission, though. he ran in there fast, i mean, it's just unbelievable, like i said before in an interview earlier, i never would have thought that would have happened in portland, organize o, and clackamus at that. this is a safe city, i moved here from minnesota. i wasn't expecting this at all. >> when he said "i am the shooter" was he declaring it, was he sort of mumbling it, trying to get everybody to turn around and get a look at him? >> i think he kind of just declared it, i'm here to shoot, basically like i'm going to shoots, no holds barred, i'm about to go in here and shoot people. just i mean i don't -- >> you were able to warn a lot of people by quick thinking and telling everybody to get out of

the way. you seem rationally rattled this morning. how are you doing? >> i'm doing all right. at first when it happened, it happened so fast, and it didn't set in, but i went home with my family that next night or later that evening, and it's set in exactly two weeks before christmas someone coming to do this at one of our biggest malls and it's unbelievable, it's crazy. it's just crazy. >> austin patty, macy's employee, was there, saw the shooter, thank you for your time this morning. i know it's a tough thing to talk about. we appreciate you giving us some more insight on it. >> thank you very much for having me. >> you bet. still ahead on "starting point" a little movement on the fiscal cliff with new proposals on the table from both sides. going to talk about that. some conservatives say they think boehner should step away from the negotiating table. we'll talk to tennessee congresswoman marcia blackburn about that. a viewer writes to a black

meteorologist saying she needs to grow hair or wear a wig. it's not something i think looks good on tv so she responded on facebook very nicely said something at the end "have a nice day," got her fired. we'll talk about her story, when we return, in just a moment. questions? anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ female announcer ] live the regular life.

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seeing some actual movement this morning in talks to avoid the fiscal cliff, both sides

exchanging new offers. the white house lowering its demand for new tax revenues from $1.6 trillion to $1.4 trillion. republicans made a counter offer, not many details about that counter offer are known. we want to get to congresswoman marcia blackburn, a republican from the state of tennessee. nice to have you with us. always great to see new the morning. >> good to see you, soledad. >> do you feel there will be a deal and maybe what, something like 48 hours before you guys go on break. i mean is it going to be that soon? >> soledad, i have to tell you, we in the house have passed bills that deal with the tax extenders, deal with sequestration, all of this has been over in the senate waiting for action for months. so we know that our constituents are frustrated. we're a little bit frustrated, too, and we are hopeful that the president will come forward, talk about some spending cuts, you know? everyone says, look at e erskine-bowles and alan simpson, they say you have to deal with

the spending and we're hopeful we're going to get some action on that issue. >> technically he doesn't. what's going to happen because of the expiration that would eventually raise taxes on the middle class, i think especially for republicans who look sort of certainly in polling that they'd be holding the bag on this, democrats could wait the clock out because what happens on that day, taxes go up for everybody and republicans will look like they're the people who blocked, who have supported raising taxes on the middle class which is one of those things that will get you unelected pretty darned fast. so technically you don't have to solve the spending thing right at this moment, right? >> no. the president's plan would generate eight days of revenue so you're going to raise taxes on the top 2%, and you're going to pay for 2% of your spending. i mean this makes no sense. you have to deal with the spending issues. just raising taxes on the top 2% makes the problem worse. we don't want to go there. as i said, we have passed these

bills out of the house. they have been in the senate for months. if the president is wanting to be the driver-in-chief to go over the fiscal cliff, i find that very disappointing. our constituents deserve better. this is not good for the country, and we would like to see him come to the table and address the spending issues. you know, you can read article after article, and it will say you have to address all the health care costs there. whether it's entitlement, medicaid -- >> he laid out medicare costs, parts of the bill when it coombs to the farm stipends they underwrite. it's not like democrats aren't talking at all about spending. you wanted to jump in ryan. >> congresswoman, just to talk detail on entitlements, is this the republican position on medicare and on social security, the republican leadership in the house wants to raise the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67? is that the position of the republican leadership, and on

oeshl securi social security you want to change the cost of living adjustments, are those the two issues the speaker is pressing the president on? >> no, the issue is solving the problem for the long-term. >> so you don't want to raise the eligibility rate? >> the issue is finding a way to stabilize the systems. look, when you look at medicare and individuals, the federal government has had first right of refusal on your paycheck. all of your working life and that money has been paid into medicare. we need to make certain that that trust fund, which is it is supposed to be, medicare and social security are trust funds, and they should be organized as trust funds. some of us have had legislation that would help with this issue. that obligation to our nation's seniors has to be met. if we do nothing then you're going to see those trust funds run out of money.

social security is already pulling on the general fund. these are issues that you have to say, number one, let's stabilize it. number two, let's look at the long-term viability. number three, let's figure out how this obligation is going to be met to today's seniors, and near seniors and how we're going to make it workable. >> congresswoman -- >> you cannot leave this unattended. >> tom berger here. following up on ryan's question, those are big and lofty goals but let's talk about the next two weeks, ryan asked but the medicare eligibility age and the cost of living inflation and things like that. if those were included, could you vote for a plan then from the president, if the president still called for some tax increases on the top 2% but said we'll raise the eligibility age to 6 years and also cost of

living, would you vote for the plan? >> we don't know what is going to be in a plan right now because there are two people that are handling these negotiations, one is the speaker of the house and the other is the president of the united states. so to say we're going to vote for this or we're going to vote for that, we don't know what we'll be presented with. what we do know is this, that the fiscal cliff is looming. the house has taken action over the past several months that would address this. you know that washington does not have a revenue problem. it has a spending problem. what you have to do is get the spending side of this under control. there is a way to generate more revenue, and it is through reforming the tax code, cleaning it up, dealing with some of the loopholes. it is a dynamic way to approach the revenue quotient rather than a static which, which is just

raising the rates and you're going to end up getting less revenue. so i think it's an opportunity to clean up this tax code. i would like to see the focus put on that. >> i would argue you guys have a fiscal cliff problem actually and maybe all of the above, clean up the tax code, raise some taxes for some people, cut some spending, like everybody in america has to deal with their own budget. >> we also have a ca and trade problem, soledad. >> cap and trade, we've got a lot to cover and 48 hours. >> if we do not clean this up we are capping our children's future and trading it to the people that hold this nation's debt. >> you got 48 hours. >> we have got to get this solved i know. >> 48 hours before you go on break, 48 hours. marsha blackburn nice to see you as always. stay tuned at 10:00 eastern time the house speaker john boehner will be holding a news conference, he'll be joined by majority leader eric cantor, majority whip kevin mccarthy,

watch it live on cnn. up ahead we'll be talking to the defense secretary leon panetta. we have an exclusive interview with him, speaking out for the first time since north korea launched that long-range rocket overnight. erin burnett spoke to him in afghanistan.

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welcome back. overnight north korea launched a rocket into space carrying a satellite. erin burn set in kabul, afghanistan where she wrapped up an exclusive interview with leanne panetta. what did he have to say about this rocket launch, erin? >> reporter: it was really interesting. i asked him whether he thought, was concerned because of the success of the launch, whether a missile from north korea would be able to hit the united states if that was their intent and he was very strong. we've been hearing since this happened the u.s. doesn't have a missile defense system that could really deal with this, the defense secretary says is he extremely confident in his words "i'm very confident they would

be able to block any sort of a missile coming from north korea directed at the west coast of the united states" and additionally, soledad, i thought this was fascinating i asked him how we thought this had been failing recently and how they suddenly fixed this and were able to be successful so quickly. he said i'm not sure it was a success. when you talk about that satellite, he said at this point the united states has not been able to determine if the final stage of the launch was successful or whether that could have tumbled into space so i think that's important, too, as we heard this was a "success" that at least from the department of defense according to radar they're not able to ascertain if that is the case. >> the country is announcing it just two hours after the launch it was a huge success, that they were successful because they had not mentioned it ahead of time, like they did eight months ago, the failed launch, made a big deal out of it and turned out to explode in the air and was clearly unsuccessful. >> reporter: right. >> erin will have the interview

with secretary pa net ta tonight on "out front" at 7:00 p.m. eastern, tomorrow night it airs live from african afghanistan. a black woman was fired after she responded nicely to a fasty facebook post about her short hair. should she have fought back or stayed silent? it cost her her job. coming up. capella university understands businesses are trying to come back from rough economic times.

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>> welcome back, everybody. you're watching "starting point." john berman starts us off with breaking news. police in new york city trying to find a killer who may be a professional. he walked up beside a street in the middle of the city and shot the man in the head. the victim did have an arrest record on the west coast. mayor blamberg said this killing was not random. maryland health official is confirming a second person died in the fungal meningitis outbreak, he died in november and had been reportedly receiving treatment, nationwide

590 people have been infected in this outbreak, 37 people have died. you're looking at live pictures of the first section of the spire at one world trade center, it is going up slowly, nine of the spire's 18 sections arrived yesterday, when it's concluded it will sit on top of the 104-story skyscraper making it the tallest building in the western hemisphere, a welcome sight. changes are coming to the martin luther king jr. monument in washington, d.c. an edited version will be removed and not replaced. the inscription was "i was a drum major for justice, peace and righteousness." the full quote, the year 1968 he was asass naded "yes if you want to say that i was a drum major, say that i was a drum major for justice. say that i was a drum major for peace, i was aa drum major for righteousness and that all other shallow things will not matter."

maya angelou pointed out the partial quote could make dr. king sound arrogant. >> you can't quote things with quotes they didn't say on their memorial. the point of a quote is that they actually said it. he did not say that. >> you can get away with shortening quotes on twitter about you not monuments. >> i'm not even sure on twitter you can quote someone. >> we have one more story people are talking about this morning, tennis pro wozniak's imitation of serena williams, competing in an exhibition match in brazil, should have had her shirt and skirt with towels and pranced around the court. got plenty of laughs around the crowd, wozniak is taking heat online, some calling this racist. this is not the first time wozniacki has done this and

others have done this, williams and wozniacki are close friends. i have not seen comment from serena williams so far. >> which is the only thing that comments. if serena is offended by what her friend has done i'll be right there with her and say be offended. >> she's done this before. >> because they're friends and she thinks what her friend is done is funny then i think -- >> it's sort of going after ugly stereotypes that are rooted in racism in some way? >> but if serena makes the choice not to be offended that's graceful. i think that would win her a lot of support. >> i don't see an ugly stereotype. i don't think it's racist. i think we throw the word racist around a lot. it might be offensive, if serena is offended because of something someone has done and says wow, she's somehow mocking her body but you know -- >> doesn't have to be racist to be offensive. >> serena has a slamming body and looks great and her friend is probably just making fun but

if she's offended that's the only person whose opinion i care about on that. and that's the final word. how about this story which in a way is an interesting connection to this, rhonda lee, meteorologist, worked for ktbs in shreveport, louisiana, and i said worked for, because she got fired the other day, as you can see in her picture here she has short natural hair. viewer who wasn't fond of her style wrote this on the station's facebook page, "the black lady that does the news is a very nice lady. the only thing is she needs to wear a wig or grow some more hair. i'm not sure if she's a cancer patient, but still it's not something myself that i think looks good on tv." so rhonda took to facebook and wrote back, "showing little girls being comfortable in the skin and hair god gave me is my contribution to society. little girls and boys for that matter need to see that what you look like isn't a reason not to achieve their goals. conforming to one's standard isn't what being an american is about and i hope you can embrace that. thank you for your comment and

have a great weekend and thanks for watching." which by the way is so much nicer than i would have been if someone had written that on my facebook page. >> i have read some of the comments. >> i would have said get lost. >> by the way i like your hair style. is this the first time that someone has commented on your looks on facebook, the station's facebook page? >> i would probably say yes the first time on a facebook page, mainly because the medium itself is so new, but i would say in this business, it's unfortunately rather commonplace. i've been denied job interviews because of my hair. i've been asked would you be willing to maybe grow your hair out. i've even had a news director once say that my hair was too aggressive for sacramento so i wasn't allowed to interview at that point so it's been an interesting journey with my hair. >> when you say interesting, you mean not so great i think is what you're saying there. but you responded to this one.

i thought your response was again much nicer than i would have ever done because i kind of tell people off on twitter and occasionally on facebook. why did you feel the need to respond? >> well, one the message itself had sat and pretty much festered on her facebook page for about six days before i had even replied at all, but i think what i said was exactly what i meant. edification for these kind of topics is crucial to moving past tough racial issues in our country, and at the time honestly i didn't think of it as anything more than what it was, which was just replying to a viewer and letting him know, i'm perfectly healthy, in fact i ran a marathon in dallas this past weekend so i'm fine in every way and i'm blessed to be the way that i am, and as an american citizen, i'm okay with being accepted for my hair and everything that it encompasses. >> the station that fired you released a statement, and here's what they said, this is from

ktbs, "unfortunately television personalities have long been subject to harsh criticism and negative viewer comments about their appearance and performance. if harsh viewer comments are posted on the station's official website, there is a specific procedure to follow. ms. rhonda lee was let go for repeatedly violating that procedure, and after being warned multiple times of the consequences if her behavior continued, rhonda lee was not dismissed for her appearance or defending her appearance, she was fired for continuing to violate can be procedure. they're saying there is an official thing you should have done and did not do and you've been warned. is that true? ? not necessarily. in fact not at all. i have yet to see this policy. upon my termination, i was asked could i see it, and i was told no. i pled for my job again just this past friday and asked to see the policy, and was told that there isn't anything written down. so if i was in violation of something, i would also assume it would be in my employee file.

there's nothing there. >> they sent a staff e-mail to people, and i know you're included on that e-mail, and i'll tell what you it says, "when we see complaints from viewers it's best not to respond at all. if you choose to respond to these complaints there's only one proper response, provide them with, they crossed the person's name out, i'll guess it's like the person who runs this area for you, contact information and tell them that he would be glad to speak with them about their concerns. once again this is the only proper response, this was sent august 30th of 2012 and that's a screen graph from that e-mail. >> um-hum. i can honestly still say that i did not see that at that point, and as far as i was concerned, it was addressed to me, so i felt the need to address it, and seeing as how at the time that the message was up there, the station didn't do anything, and in these kind of instances, it behooves everyone, i would feel,

to address these sort of topics because racial instances, racial comments can be very sensitive and if they're allowed to just sit there, to me it's almost condoning harsh comments like that, instead of perhaps even defending the employee, but i would say in this instance, i didn't necessarily find my topic controversial at all. >> let me ask the question, have they taken it down yet because when i saw a version of it, it was "liked" someone at the station, whoever runs your facebook page liked the original comment, which is creepy in and of it self. >> as far as i know, it is still there. it was there last week. i don't know if it's still there now. >> you know what's so interesting, jennifer livingston, remember jennifer livingston the reporter in lacrosse, wisconsin, and she went out and did this impassioned response to an equally nasty e-mail that came in about her weight, and her station fully supported her and she used it as an opportunity to say that, you know, that this is

something that she's been dealing with, that she's a healthy person, et cetera, et cetera, and her own struggles and i think people cheered her, they used it as an opportunity to have a conversation about how painful it is to be unpleasant to somebody over e-mail about the size of her body and women and weight, all these things were covered, and i think your station kind of did the opposite, like there's no conversation. >> you would think the station is in china instead of california. >> no, it's in, where is your station? >> dallas, texas. >> it's in? >> louisiana. >> ktbs is? shreveport, louisiana. why do you think they didn't -- you could have almost done, we did this "black in america" the other day, everybody wanted to talk about skin color and race and sort of perceptions in america. you could have used your story to really launch an interesting conversation about why is your short, natural hair scary to people. why is it aggressive?

i think that's fascinating. why do you think they didn't do that? >> i honestly, i wish i had an answer, because for me, my first response was education, and in the case of the other woman, that was one of the first things that came to my mind was, i feel like i was being punished for defending myself, whereas other people are given platforms, i was given a pink slip instead. i feel that a lot of times and particularly in the deep south that racial issues can be scary, they can be very touchy, and as my former employer saw it as controversial, to me, as i said before, they may have had this policy that again i can honestly say that i have not seen, you may have the policy but i also feel that there's a responsibility to educate viewers, and if that opportunity comes up, then grab it. take hold of it, embrace it, and use it as a platform for helping repair relations within our

community, and i really feel that hiding is doing more of a disservice than actually helping to educate the viewing population when you have the opportunity. >> well, ktsb might be regr regretting the way they strategically handed this one. rhonda lee, sorry that you lost your job by taking a stand on this, and by speaking out about it but we appreciate you talking to us this morning. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> you bet. got to take a break. still ahead on "starting point" during the presidential campaign, well, we talked about this a lot, lies, lies and more lies from both sides of the aisle. lots of things that were not true but which one was the lie of the year? the editor and founder of "politifact.com" will join us with their big reveal, the biggest liar in the campaign, straight ahead. [ sniffs ] i have a cold.

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welcome back to "tarting point." i'm christine romans in today's "smart is the new rich" u.s. futures are higher after a strong performance yesterday and ahead of an appearance by the federal reserve chief every day. investors expect the federal reserve will announce more economic stimulus. the fed's moves pushed interest rates on cars, homes to record lows but not credit cards and many say the fed's stimulus has been rocket fuel for the stock market. the s&p 500 is up more than 13% so far this year. market analysts say a tumble off the fiscal cliff would mean a tumble for stocks early next year. we're 20 days away from the cliff but less than two weeks from christmas and 58% of

americans say they are nowhere near done with their holiday shopping this year. this according to a new poll by reuters ipsos. about a third say they've not started yet. only 18% say they've already bought their holiday presents this year. last-minute shopping can often lead to overspending. americans have more debt on their cards this year than last year, already about $4,996 in the third quarter so be careful, remember not to buy anything you can't afford to pay off in the next 30 days. we don't need to run around spending money we don't have to please people we don't like. >> this we haven't earned yet. >> that's called christmas. >> god bless america. >> it's stunning if you translated this whole fiscal crisis to a family and lopped off eight zeros, then we earn $24,000 and we owe $850,000. that's not viable. >> that's always bad math. >> you can't pay that off in 30 days. >> no. >> what are the interest rates on that?

interest rate on america's credit card are nothing but we don't get the low interest rates. >> i haven't started shopping yet. >> me either. i'm in the 28%. >> we'll be running through the mall buying whatever the day before. got to take a break. up next this morning, you heard lots of lies, just so many really, the show was based on people lying to us constantly on the show during the presidential campaign but what was the biggest lie of the entire year? we're going to reveal that coming up next. from the best players in history

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we know in any political campaign both sides make extreme statements aka big fat lies and the fact checkers have to cut through the talking points to figure out the truth, i was going to say something else but i'll say talking points. politifact, they consider the most outlandish, incorrect, phony untrue statement of the entire year in politics. bill adair is the editor of politifact.com and has the 2012 lie of the year. what has the world come to that we have the lie of the year. who wins for lie of the year? what lie is the victor?

>> it's the claim by the romney campaign that jeep was going to move its production to china at the cost of american jobs. this was a last-minute point in an ad made in ohio, but it really had ramifications far beyond ohio. >> i think we have a clip. >> we've chosen it as the lie of the year. >> let me play you a clip. >> mitt romney has a plan to help the auto industry. he is supported by lee eiacocca and "the detroit news." obama sold jeep to a company in china. >> that only aired in toledo but it was the aftermath that went crazy. let's talk about that. >> absolutely, in fact the reason we chose it, it was just so brazen. it began with something romney said on the campaign trail, they

put out that ad, they also put out a radio ad that said the same thing, and they continued to repeat it even after chrysler and the fact checkers had said it was simply not true. jeep was actually expanding its production in the u.s. the reason it was thinking of building, that it's planning to build a plant in china is to meet the increased demand for jeeps in china, so it was just blatantly false and yet they persisted with it. >> you know what's interesting, too, remember when the chrysler ceo, sergio marchione had to put out a statement basically saying, liar, liar, pants on fire, this is not going to happen. that's never, or more nicely i'm obliged to unambiguously restate our position. jeep production will not be moved from the united states to china. it is inaccurate to suggest anything different. there were strategists who were stunned that this ad, that this was being said, because they thought it was kind of signaled a desperate move. what was the runner-up, what was

the next runner-up that could have been picked as the biggest lie? >> well we had ten finalists and i should note that we had a reader's poll where we also allow readers to vote on their top choice. the reader's top choice was a claim by rush limbaugh that obama care was the largest tax increase in the history of the world, and that was the number one for the readers. we didn't pick that one. we felt this one was just bigger. i mean this was a lie that backfired. i think the romney campaign, as you just noted, soledad, this was something of a dress mat pressure at the end of the campaign, and it didn't work, in fact, it actually backfired because there was so much fact checking and debunking and the statement you mentioned from chrysler that it just didn't work. >> bill adair, founder and editor of politifact.com. thank youyour website.

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